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Visualization and Parroting problems

Discussion in 'Beginner and Creation Help' started by Disva, Nov 28, 2015.

  1. Disva

    Disva New Member Tulpamancy System Is a host

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    Hello all!

    I've been working on my tulpa (Oavikeis) for about two months now. I got past the personality stage (did 30 traits, defined very thoroughly over 14 effects each, first with narration, then going through all of them again with visualization aid), and have been working on visualizing her for a while. But...I've run into two main issues. I'll explain each below.

    Firstly, when I first enter our wonderland, I slowly step myself through all the senses to immerse myself in it, ending in sight. However, in this way, I effectively have to "build" what I am sensing...when it comes down to visuals, I always hesitate visualizing my tulpa because if I visualize them in a specific place or pose, then I'd be forcing them to be there, parroting them. However, I haven't found a reliable method to see them without imagining where they are, I can't tell where they already are, essentially. Is there any way to do this?

    Secondly, during the visualization process, I build her up bit-by-bit, starting at her toes and ending at her head. But, to make sure that I am visualizing her joints properly (which is quite important, as her joints are very visible), I test their range of motion by bending the limb and seeing what directions it can rotate in. However...is this not also parroting? I require it to make sure I am making her joints properly, but I worry it damages her independence.

    Thank you all for reading, and please reply to this thread if you believe you have advice to give.

    Thanks,
    Disva
     
  2. Falah

    Falah aka the Chiaroscuro

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    I'll open first with the disclaimer that we go about this process very differently. With visualization, I tend to sketch the whole scene in stages rather than filling it out piece by piece, and with immersion, I tend not to try for full input from innerworld senses so much as I try for dissociation from the outerworld and a general outline of what's going on inside, if that makes sense?

    As I see it, what goes on with visualization is metaphorical rather than literal, and it's how I perceive things rather than what's going on. So it's possible for visualization to simply glitch out without it having profound effects or meaning anything. If you're worried that faulty visualization will damage your tulpa, don't worry about it too much--there's quite a few tulpamancers who can't visualize well or at all, and their tulpas are perfectly fine.

    Now, that being said. This is secondhand and speculative, but it might help you to think of the visualized body as not literally being your tulpa, but rather, your interface with her. Think of it as testing out the interface to make sure it works, rather than moving your tulpa around. You can think of it as your tulpa (the program behind the interface) not being attached to it yet, but also as her being welcome to attach at any time and move on her own. (I especially recommend keeping that last part in mind!)

    In other words, test and build up the interface, and if she connects to it spontaneously and begins to act, then step back and let her act. I hope I make sense.

    Also, did you say you were having trouble with vocality as well? From this post, I'm going to guess that, like me, you're an extremely analytical person with an acute eye for detail, and that you like to double-check that every part of a machine works before setting it in motion. If I'm right, then if it's okay, I'm going to venture another guess and wager that you apply this approach to your tulpa's personality as well, analyzing each trait to make sure each one is solid and that the logic of it all will flow properly.

    If I'm right there, too, well... You probably won't like hearing this (I certainly don't) but that approach, when applied to personality, might actually hinder more than help.

    At the risk of sounding vague, personality is an organic process. Think back to how a host's personality develops. Our personalities aren't assembled from the start, but grown piecemeal--putting aside the role of genetics in brain structure for a moment, we are mostly a blank slate when we are born. As we age, we accumulate memories from experiences we have and people we interact with, and those memories drive our thoughts and actions. It is not a clean process, but a rather improvisational one on the part of the brain, and though it follows its own kind of logic (one that neuroscientists are still trying to understand), it is not the same kind of logic as, say, programming most programs or assembling most machines.

    It's the same matter here. Be careful not to expect your tulpa to hold strictly to her framework. Analyze overmuch, and you might find yourself reflexively rejecting responses that don't fit the expected patterns. Though I did not create any of them, I find myself doing this inadvertently to my own systemmates--grabbing hold of whatever they say, and if it doesn't fit my expectations of what they would say, I get paranoid. Of course, there are situations where doubt is important, but the very essence of a tulpa (or any person, actually) is that they do not always fit expectations and structures.

    Or, to word it another way--your tulpa's personality isn't a finite collection of discrete traits, but a continuous distribution where some traits may feature more prominently than others.

    Of course, as usual, take what's useful and feel free to disregard the rest, and I apologize if I've made any untowards assumptions. I do hope it was helpful, though!
     
    Skyler likes this.
  3. Disva

    Disva New Member Tulpamancy System Is a host

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    Thank you, Falah!

    I appreciate the detailed and thorough response to my questions...it's given me a lot to think about. Your suggestion about her body being her "interface" was especially helpful to me, I think that should aid in my visualization. I do normally completely stop parroting once I've visualized her body, so, it'll be easy to shift over to that.

    As for personality...you are unfortunately correct. I did take that approach, and I can see how that would be problematic...I will try to be a bit looser on that, give her more freedom, and let her develop. Maybe more adventures in the wonderland. Thank you for telling me this, I probably would never have changed.

    I'll start putting your advice into practice right away!

    Thanks,
    Disva
     
  4. FallFamily

    FallFamily Forum Goddesses Administrator Moderator Plural System Mixed-Origin System

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    [Hail] Another thing that might help with the puppetting with visualization thing is to first visualize her far away meaning that you only need to visualize a tiny blob of color at first. Then get closer and closer to her and work on visualizing in more and more detail with each step. This might help avoid having to visualize her piece by piece (say toes to head).
     
  5. Disva

    Disva New Member Tulpamancy System Is a host

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    Ah, hello Hail! Good to see you again.

    Excellent advice...I hadn't considered beginning at a distance. It should help me keep her form cohesive! As well, that should help lower the amount of puppeting, hopefully.

    Thanks!
     
  6. Skyler

    Skyler Hiding in a Human Body Tulpamancy System Is a host

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    I'm glad you mentioned this; some of the advice you've gotten is really good advice! I'll have to try out Hail's far-away advice.
    Might as well offer some advice of my own, I suppose. This is just my thoughts, but perhaps you shouldn't work to "build up" the wonderland, exactly. That sort of thinking, as far as I can understand, could end up with a rather artificial area. When you walk into a room, you don't take in all the angles and details at once -- so I would think that the same should be in a wonderland. Letting it build itself around you as you do your regular business would not only let you have more time to actually force with your tulpa, but also bring in some more natural surprises -- and maybe even allow room for your tulpa to influence it!
     
  7. Disva

    Disva New Member Tulpamancy System Is a host

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    Ah, thank you, Skyler!

    Hmmmn...I've never tried that. I always explicitly imagine everything so I can really feel like I'm there...perhaps by doing so I exert too much control. It's difficult for me to see things without forcing myself to see them, trying to just let it come to me ends up in me seeing nothing, but, maybe a middle-ground...

    I'll give it a shot! Thanks!
     
  8. Watcher

    Watcher Somewhere Between Motivated and Cold

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    Yeah, in our case, learning to just... relax and let the brain build up the mindscape for us helped a ton, and it makes lot of sense when you take things like dreams into account. The unconscious is more than capable of rendering different places and landscapes--it may take a bit of training and herding to get the mindscape to solidify, but focusing too intensively on it can also make things needlessly difficult. There's definitely a sweet spot, I think.