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Some very newbie questions regarding presence and hearing responses

Discussion in 'Beginner and Creation Help' started by Xela, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. Xela

    Xela New Member Tulpamancy System Is a host

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    Hi there, everyone! I haven't been around for a little, mainly because I've been so busy with the holidays and such.

    I also haven't really made much time for forcing with Griffin, either. =( I apologized to her yesterday, and today I've been doing my best to passive-force her as much as I can. But I have a few questions that I was hoping I might be able to get advice on!

    1. I've been trying to focus on feeling Griffin's presence around me, as it helps me feel like I'm talking to her and not just talking to myself. However, I'm wondering how much the physical space around me affects her/where she is/where she could be?

    For example, let's say I'm sitting in a coffee shop at a two-chair table. I sit in one chair, and normally I'll put things like my bags/jackets on the other chair across from me so they're not on the floor. Can I imagine Griffin sitting in that chair, despite the bag and such that would prevent a physical person from sitting there? Is it fair for her, even if she can granted her intangibility? Or would it be better if I left space like it would be if she had a physical body?

    I assume it is "better" to leave the room, but that leaves me with other conundrums: for example, when I'm at work, I only have one chair at my desk. I've been trying to imagine her sitting on one corner of my desk, but sometimes I feel like that's "wrong" somehow. Or, if I'm in my own room, I could imagine her sitting on my bed while I'm at my computer, but then she isn't close enough to see whatever I'm doing if I want to share something with her. Should I just imagine her standing near me (Can a tulpa get tired from standing?), should I imagine a chair next to me for her? And in that case, I wonder if I should clear the floor for her?

    I feel like I'm over-thinking this, but it does concern me. =(
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    2. I found I can imagine Griffin's responses pretty well, since her initial form is based on a character so it's easy for me to visualize her voice, mannerisms, etc. Just to be clear, I am pretty certain she chose these traits at least for now; I did not imagine her with such at the very beginning, but she wanted to be outgoing and not quiet, for example.

    But "hearing" these responses as I do, sometimes it's almost like she's saying a couple of things at once. I believe this is tulpish? It's almost like she's coming up with a few phrases to get across what she wants to say, and I "hear" them all at once.

    Does this sound like a healthy beginning for our communication, or does it seem problematic? I tried posting for her in the Tulpas-only forum because I've heard it can help tulpas learn communication skills, but I stopped because I was afraid I wasn't "translating" what she told me properly, as I hear more of the concept of what she's saying than a straightforward sentence.

    Is it okay for me to continue trying to post for her, or should I wait until her sentences clear up? Because as of now, if I ask her to repeat something she said, the words won't be quite the same every time. Maybe this is part of her learning how to phrase her thoughts?
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    3. This last question isn't as directly related to tulpamancy as the others, so please ignore it if it's outside the scope of the type of advice I may receive. But I've noticed that when I am busy and am active in doing many things (for example, I spent a few solid days last week thoroughly cleaning my room, going through my stuff and deciding to keep only what makes me happy), I barely even think to include Griffin in the process and talk to her.

    In fact, there were a few times where I was, ashamed to say, wondering if I should bother continuing to force her at all. I didn't feel like I was being fair to her, given my lack of effort. I think this stems from a general feeling I have about myself, where I doubt my abilities to finish what I start.

    I talked about it with my best friend who has tulpas, and he responded with, "There's no stopping her now." Then I realized how selfish I was being, and that's when I apologized for Griffin for the lack of effort on my part.

    I guess my question is, does this kind of doubt make me a poor host? Where it's not so much doubting Griffin as doubting my ability to help her grow? Any advice on how to overcome it, given that it's an issue that affects me outside tulpamancy as well?​

    Sorry for the super long post, friends. These are my biggest obstacles at the moment, so I thought I'd see if I could get any help with them. Thank you in advance if you have any thoughts to share. =)
     
  2. Keysaya

    Keysaya Member Tulpamancy System Soulbonding System Is a host

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    Hello there! I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can:

    1) About presence imposition, it's usually suggested to clear the space around you, as if another person was really there, mostly because it helps to create the illusion that there truly is another person near you. However, in our case, sometimes we don't do that: to re-use the example you provided, for example, my tulpas remove an imposed version of the bag/jacket that is on the chair next to me, so that they can sit on it. In case you're wondering, this is a remnant of what we used to do when I considered them imaginary friends, so I guess the habit just stuck with them too (also, for example, when they leave my room, they open an imposed version of the door if it's closed).

    About the second part of the question, imagining a chair should be more than enough. That's what we usually do. However, sometimes they prefer to remain standing next to me. Other times, they shrink themselves and sit on my shoulder.

    2) That sounds like she's trying to communicate, yes. My tulpas sometimes do the same thing you described, so I wouldn't think it's problematic.

    About the second part of the question, I'd continue to proxy for her if you can. Proxying can be a great tool towards proper vocalization: in case you're unsure of what she's saying, I'd ask for confirmation if what you're writing for her is what she wants to say or not.

    3) Ah, I can understand you there: sometimes I struggle with the same thoughts too. The fact that you're worrying about this shows that you care a lot about Griffin, and that doesn't make you a bad host at all. With that being said, remember this: you're both learning in this. You're both just starting. It's okay to make mistakes: the important thing is to learn from them and go on. Don't worry if you sometimes "forget" about Griffin, especially in busy times (something that I struggle with, by the way!): that's something that will come easier with practice, not to mention when it will be Griffin herself reminding you of her, on her own accord!
    Don't see this as a one-sided thing: you both will help each other grow, and improve yourselves.

    I hope this helped!
     
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  3. Xela

    Xela New Member Tulpamancy System Is a host

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    Thank you so much for the response, @Keysaya! Your answers were very clear and helpful. <3

    I really like what you mentioned about your tulpas moving imposed versions of things; I'll do my best to actually clear space for Griffin, but I think that'll be really useful for some situations where I can't do that for whatever reason.

    And I'll definitely keep proxying for her, I'm happy to know that others communicate like she does!=)
     
  4. FallFamily

    FallFamily Forum Goddesses Administrator Moderator Plural System Mixed-Origin System

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    [Tri] We are pretty much on the same page as @Keysaya on this. We do have to add that the shrinking down when imposed and sitting on the shoulder works very good from our system's experience. As for the communication, that is the nature of tulpish/mentalese sometimes. Try to translate it into linear speech and then ask Griffin if it means what she wanted it to mean. If the answer is no, work together to adjust it till she feels it is an accurate translation. This had to be done with some of the tulpas in here early on and it was quite effective in enabling communication and helping with being able to transmit linear speech to each other. As for the doubts and forgetting. Only fools have no doubt, and everyone forgets. Work hard to control your doubt (don't let it go to extremes) and not forgetting. Go forward.
     
  5. Max

    Max Grasping at Clouds

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    I think the way you guys are talking about "imposed versions" of objects is really interesting!! Before I discovered tulpamancy, I was actually SO good at imposition that I wasn't aware I was doing it, and I could effectively deny the unreality of the things I was 'seeing'. Therefore, when Leon picked up an object (and yet the object stayed where it was, and now there were two of the object), I called that "copying", and I justified the experience by suggesting that every physical object has a nonphysical copy which Leon (a nonphysical person) can interact with.

    (((My personal visual experience: When I pick up an object, I pick up both the physical version and the nonphysical version. When I reach out and touch Leon, his skin can bend under my touch. Inversely, when he touches me, my skin doesn't move. Nonphysical objects cannot impact physical objects, unless they are 'married' copies. If a nonphysical copy is removed from its physical counterpart, and then replaced in close proximity, it will be 'magnetized' to its copy and 'recombine', and Leon will be able to remove it later. Each physical object only has one nonphysical copy.)))

    This is all based around my aggressive denial that everything I was seeing was 'made up' (for lack of a more accurate phrase). I could effectively convince myself that things I was seeing were real rather than imposed. Or, both real and imposed. That was a mess. I no longer insist that imposition is the exact same as seeing, but Leon still interacts with objects in the same way.

    ((This is why when I read about possession/eclipsing as a way of "letting your tulpa experience the physical world" I was like, "What?? They already can!"))

    Wow sorry for being wordy and off-topic, I do love to talk.
     
  6. Xela

    Xela New Member Tulpamancy System Is a host

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    Thanks so much for your input! I personally think I'll have a bit of trouble with imagining Griffin shrinking down because I've been trying so hard to imagine her in "realistic" proportions (it's hard for me, though I keep trying!), but Griffin really likes the idea so we'll definitely try it out. =)

    And I'll definitely try that with translating Griffin's communications into linear speech (thanks for giving me a phrase for that!). She's been trying to reach out and talk to people, but she hasn't developed an opinion on a lot of things yet so we're still working on that. She gets very excited over new things (example: I toasted myself a jalepeno bagel today, and she couldn't wait for me to try it. Though she just kept asking me to "try the jalepeno!!"as if I was just eating a straight pepper, which isn't my style at all!).

    I'm hoping to start helping her respond to some of the threads in the Tulpas-only forum soon enough, but for now she's been a bit overwhelmed considering the questions. I tried to explain the idea of a "paradise" to her, for example, but then she started worrying because she had no idea what she would like best. ^^;; /Griffin: I wasn't THAT worried. >.>/

    Thanks again for your words, especially like "Only fools have no doubt"!

    PS: Tri, I've been wondering if your name is pronounced like the word "try" or like "tree" or a different way? I know it makes no difference in a text-based forum, but I'm just curious! =)

    No worries about the wordiness, though I did cut a bit from your reply for the sake of quoting. ^^;

    I think that's super interesting with you and your natural skills at imposition! I can imagine things such as speech and actions pretty well, but visually my mind's eye seems to work better when I don't look at things directly, so to speak. It's kind of like those optical illusions where when you don't focus, you can see the dots, but as soon as you look at them directly, they go away. I can imagine Griffin in a lot of ways, but her presence is a lot like that dot in the optical illusion.

    /Griffin: I've found that Xela knows where I am and can "see" me more when we're walking somewhere than when we're still./

    That's 'cause I know you don't want to BE still. x.x

    /Griffin: ...that's not my fault. =(/

    Yeah, I know. I really should stop being so lazy. Dx Darn you for trying to get me to do healthy things.

    /Griffin: =D I love you too! <3/

    *ahem* Sorry about that. Griffin's gotten much more chatty in just the past day. ^^;
     
  7. FallFamily

    FallFamily Forum Goddesses Administrator Moderator Plural System Mixed-Origin System

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    [Tri] @Max Wow, Max and Leon, that is impressive. Also, we think we want to try that some time when we are not possessing - what Leon does.

    A person develops opinions through experience. The more Griffin sees and interacts, the more opinions and thoughts she can develop. This is true for hosts, it is true for tulpas.

    Griffin, it can be intimidating at first. You might consider making your own topic, one where you feel you have more thoughts and feelings on so that you don't feel so overwhelmed.

    Learned that from a theologian, actually. It is a useful and wise statement.

    Our name is pronounced like "try". It is actually a shortened form of our subsystem name - The Triumvirate. Tri as in 3.

    Griffin, it sounds like you are gaining confidence, skill, and experience.