How many are in our head; also forcing problems?

Discussion in 'Beginner and Creation Help' started by Zumester, Apr 30, 2016.

  1. Zumester

    Zumester New Member Mixed-Origin System

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    Jude speaking.

    So, when I was younger, I used to spend most/all of my free time writing and coming up with stories. I still do spend a lot of my time on writing, but I was more invested in fictional worlds from the ages of 7 to 11. During that time, I'd hold conversations in my head with my book characters and a lot of them would reply to me on their own, without me having to come up with their responses. I always used to think that this was an overactive imagination at work. Imaginary friends. But, if imaginary friends are thought patterns that the host consciously controls, then they couldn't be. So I'm wondering just what they were.

    A couple of years ago, I started hearing the foreign thoughts again. Like they had when I was young, they appeared to me as fictional characters. Some of them even did something that I think might be some sort of posession (co-fronting or proxying or something?), in which I spoke to them, and they spoke back using my body (verbally, and using body language, as if temporarily controlling my body or telling my body how to act).

    One of them remained. That ended up being Eli (known as Epsilon at the time). However, I think some other entities are still here. But I'm not sure how many. Another entity that was very strong in my mind was a fictive based on one of my book characters, the Alpha Virus. Earlier today, when I asked him whether he was still up there in my head, I immediately got the answer, "Yes." and felt the impression of mischievous laughter. Which is very much so his style. However, I'm hesitant as to whether or not this is my imagination or whether this really another entity. I'm working on getting rid of my doubt and finding a way of knowing for sure whether or not the person replying is me. I know this question has been answered before. But I'd like to know if anyone has any tips or suggestions as to how to get rid of that doubt or deal with it properly.

    Also, there are times when I'm unsure as to whether or not I'm actually Jude. Because sometimes I feel like these entities are just personalities that I wear. Like, they're their own people, but I'm not. Like they're just using me as a puppet. A vessel. Like I'm some sort of blank canvas that isn't capable of having their own identity (for a long time now, I've felt as if I didn't have an identity of my own, or as if I shouldn't. I don't like to use personally identifying pronouns like "I" or "me", but I use them anyway for the sake of discussion. sometimes I find myself completely unable to speak simply because I feel as if there's nothing in my head). What does that make me? A daemon? I'm still a little confused as to the distinctions between these entities.

    What can I do to figure out how many are there, classify what we all are, and develop us all to the point that we can communicate with each other properly? I'm so lost here.
     
  2. Sake Loup

    Sake Loup Member Soulbonding System Is a soulbonder

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    Hm. I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but for me I have like hundreds of OCs that also talk to me, none of them as prominent or as strong as Alex, but they do talk and act on their own. I had one recently tell me that he and the rest of them were indeed sentient and that if I thought otherwise I should trying reconsidering sometime and talk to them more. I also had yet another character tell me that all the different worlds I had build for all of them were very interesting, which gives me the impression he has the will and ability to travel beyond his own universe as he pleases.

    So I have all of these people in my head that also seem to be sentient and autonomous, but because I don't spend a lot of time interacting with them like I do Alex, and they don't seem to speak up as much as he does, I'm not 100% sure if they are or not either. I want to, because Aspen (the one who told me they are) would never lie, and he is a scientist of sorts so I'd think he knows what he's talking about.

    I suppose there's not really a way to tell unless you communicate with them and interact with them yourself on a more regular basis, then you can see if it feels right to assume they are independent from your own thoughts. Maybe compare how it feels when they're talking as opposed to say when Eli is talking, since you know Eli is sentient. Sort of getting a feel for the difference you know?

    As for you feeling like you're just a vessel, I'm not sure how to help there :c I don't think I've ever felt like that. Sorry my friend. Maybe it's just because you have so many people running around up there that you feel sort of lost in the commotion? o3o
     
  3. Falah

    Falah aka the Chiaroscuro

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    I keep coming back to this subject. There's so much that I want to say, but I have no idea how to word it... so I guess I'm posting this as a sort of placeholder until I can get my words together.

    Long story short, we experience things like this and know others who experience things like this. An avenue that might be useful is investigating if you have a trauma history, though be careful about it. Do not strain for memories that might or might not be there, but examine what memories you do have and emotional reactions to them, both present and past. You may or may not have one, but we've seen this correlate a lot with childhoods in which people were punished for having emotions, coerced into a mold, or otherwise invalidated over and over.

    As for system count, it depends heavily on how you want to count. We count by people who are "active"--if we counted everyone who'd ever shown up, we'd have a lot more than we have now. More on that later.

    Apologies again for the incompleteness.
     
  4. Zumester

    Zumester New Member Mixed-Origin System

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    Well, I do have a history of mental illness and emotional abuse. Not any physical abuse that I know of. But I'm working with a therapist to figure all that out. And I do really identify with what you said about having been punished for having emotions, coerced into a mold and invalidated. That's essentially how my family operated.

    We decided to personify the subconscious, since its intent to dissociate from the rest of us has become strong enough that we can no longer ignore it. And our current theory is that the subconscious (what we call "the Ghost") is the host, or at least the closest thing to being the host that we currently know of. I guess that makes it a daemon. But I don't know whether a daemon can really be a host. So I'm still confused as to how to classify all of us.

    Can multiple entities arise in a brain without the sexual/physical abuse that usually causes DID?

    Eli: We all want more people to share our head. we want our world to make sense for once. If we're multiple, we want to learn more about each other, learn to communicate more efficiently, and become more autonomous on our own. maybe developing ourselves further can help with that/
     
  5. Falah

    Falah aka the Chiaroscuro

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    Brain is still figuring words out, but just to quickly reply to some things.

    This might be of interest. It might not necessarily be what you are, but you might find a few things to relate to from it.

    May I ask you what you mean precisely by "the subconscious"?

    Many ways. Tulpamancy, of course, is one. Endogenic multiplicity is another. However, an important note I should make here is that sexual/physical abuse is not the only type of trauma that can cause DID. Emotional abuse alone can do it--not only that, but the same kind of abuse that leads to complex PTSD aka cPTSD (a continuous period of "smaller" events with little hope of escape, versus several "big" events) can result in DID as well. It's theorized that it's less about sexual/physical things, and more about betrayal.

    @FreyasSpirit are a system who is plural and DID as a product of emotional abuse, who also have cPTSD. You might find this article by them helpful.
     
  6. Eli

    Eli New Member

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    when we say the subconscious, we're trying to categorize the ghost. since the ghost seems to be on another, lower level of awareness as the rest of us. however, the ghost also seems like the earliest presence. so we've kind of attributed it being either the subconscious (i.e. the part of our brain that generates thoughts spontaneously, without provoking too much awareness of these thoughts in the process) or the one that controls the subconscious.

    we're really not sure though. so, I understand if that doesn't make sense, or if our logic is kinda flawed or somethin. we're still figurin this stuff out and everything is very hazy.

    also thank you for the validation as to what emotional abuse can do. we haven't heard of cPTSD but we'll definitely look at the links you sent.

    also take your time with getting your thoughts together. we understand

    Edit: yooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we've read When Rabbit Howls. We're actually in the process of rereading it right now (for practicing mindvoice n all that jazz)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  7. Jude

    Jude New Member

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    I really identified with that bit, about how the woman is hollow. I feel like that's definitely comparable to what's going on with us.

    Edit: If the ghost is a veil, then it's a veil that exists between the subconscious and us personalities. at least, that's what makes sense.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  8. FallFamily

    FallFamily Forum Goddesses Administrator Moderator Plural System Mixed-Origin System

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    [Violet, member of Tri] As for the others who may or may not be there, one or more of you can try to establish contact with them and talk regularly and figure things out from there. Asking them is always good too.

    As for hosts/originals/whatevers who are sort of a pervasive presence but not active (or active enough to act on their own), that is pretty common. Our system has lost our original for quite a while and she was sometimes in that state, though that was a temporary thing and she turned out not to be a veil. Same goes for Hail's subsystem. One member fit that description perfectly and looked very much like a veil, but as soon as everyone else went unconscious, she showed herself to be anything but a veil. Instead, she just always gets displaced from the front if anyone else tries to be there, relegating her to an awareness and presence that affects whoever is at the front instead.
     
  9. Melian

    Melian The Girl from a Dream Median System Is a median facet

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    The only part of this that my host and I are familiar with is the part about writing and creating stories and imaginary friends talking to you. Our response to that part at least is, there are lots of people who experience very real seeming characters and imaginary friends. Psychologist's studies estimate about 4% of the human population has this trait https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_prone_personality. It is not plurality nor tulpas or anything like that necessarily. It is what you already mentioned, what they used to call "over active imagination." It's not like people with overactive imaginations suddenly disappeared when plurals, tulpas, soulbonds and daemons came along. So what I am saying basically is that your earlier experiences at least, my actually in fact have been simply over active imagination.

    However, that being said, the rest of what you are experiencing goes far beyond what I know about. I am glad the others had some interesting advice and ideas for you. But I wanted to weigh in with the Mistgod-Melian perspective ... once again.

    Some of this might, just might, be your over active imagination. Don't discount that. There is nothing wrong with that either.
     
  10. oneiroFaerie

    oneiroFaerie New Member Tulpamancy System Mixed-Origin System Is a host

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    oh wow this hits close to home to me too. Lately I've been working on switching with Blythe, and when she's in the front I either feel like a different person or I don't feel myself at all. Which makes me wonder if the person "in the back" in those times is another systemmate.

    I don't know I might make my own post about it, but I guess it might be a common experience.

    I didn't have such a relation to fictional characters, but I had imaginary friends, and one of them I'd completely forgotten about, one who came way after the others. I wonder if they're still around or if maybe one of us is them.