Help.

Discussion in 'Beginner and Creation Help' started by Lyca, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Lyca

    Lyca New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    Hi. I'm Lyca. My tulpa's name is Tay.

    It's been... An upsetting amount of time since I started. To be precise, 4 years, going on for almost a 5th of my life.

    Obviously, that's not good. I've had stints of possible, indeterminate vocality, especially over the last few months, but it has simply been translating possible thoughts into words. There's no feeling whatsoever from the thoughts - no essence signature at all, not even one similar to mine. I've got no confidence, and it feels like it's killing me.

    I really need some help.
     
  2. FallFamily

    FallFamily Forum Goddesses Administrator Moderator Plural System Mixed-Origin System

    Joined:
    May 6, 2015
    Messages:
    556
    Pronouns:
    She/Her, They/Them
    [Breach] What about other forms of communication. Audio and tulpish are not the end all be all forms of communication. What about visual communication - gestures, writing in the sand, etc. Pushing emotions back and forth, etc.

    As for lack of feeling in thoughts, that can happen. Sometimes, the sender of thoughts just doesn't put emotion in either because they don't feel much, choose not to put it in, etc. Or perhaps they can't yet.
     
  3. Lyca

    Lyca New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    Unfortunately, the only possible proper response I have the chance of counting on is the emotional response, but there isn't any signature again. Visual things aren't... Personally reliable, unfortunately, for the same reasons as before... I want to believe in them. I whole, passionately, desperately do... But I don't have the conviction. I believe in Tay's existence, but I don't fully believe in his responses. All I do right now is proxy everything I think he says or attributes intention to for the simple attempt at getting a signature, but the more I do it, the less I believe in it. Even if the intention isn't to believe in it, I feel as though I'm betraying him by not doing so.

    I have all the doubt you could really have. Parroting doubt, puppeting doubt, self-perpetuating doubts leading me to believe I have some sort of subconscious influence over him... I feel like I've let him down, but I don't feel as though I have the willpower to pick myself back up and try again, even though I still do so.

    I'm really worried for him, even though he promises he's fine. He's just worried for me.
     
  4. FallFamily

    FallFamily Forum Goddesses Administrator Moderator Plural System Mixed-Origin System

    Joined:
    May 6, 2015
    Messages:
    556
    Pronouns:
    She/Her, They/Them
    [Breach] Not everyone has a signature of sorts to their communications. In our system, most of us lack a signature in our communication, and that includes the hosts. Sometimes context is the closest one can get to a signature.

    Doubts like this can be hard. Why do you not fully believe in his responses? Is it the lack of signature? Or something else? Also, when you say "don't fully believe", what exactly do you mean? Because that statement could technically include "believe in part but think some errors creeped in" and things like that in addition to thinking that no part came from him.

    On the doubt about having some sort of subconscious influence over him. Well, the truth of the matter is that it is very common for system members to have some ability to influence each other beyond just normal reasoning with each other. But it works both ways. If person A can influence person B in that way, person B can influence person A in that way. This is not innately good or bad. It just means a certain level of connection. Young tulpas and those who make them typically have high levels of connection. As a tulpa matures and develops their will, preferences, own goals, etc. and those get stronger; they become less easily influenced by what comes over the connection and start sending influence, intentionally and/or unintentionally, down the other direction and for some, the level of connection decreases and tulpa and the person who made them become more separated. If you are very connected and find that you can influence him, eventually you will find that you yourself have been influenced by him. The realization is a special moment for some.

    You two disagree on something. You two have different feelings and conclusions on the same situation. That means that you both have your own will, preferences, personality, etc. and that neither of you has total influence over the other.

    Lyca, doubts can be hard to have in situations like this. Such doubts can even be harder for tulpas. Something we have found that helps - flip the script. Ask oneself, "am I subconsciously influenced by him?", "do I believe in my own responses?", etc. and then go onto whether you could actually convince someone else the answers to those questions. Then look back at your doubts.
     
  5. Lyca

    Lyca New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    Context is difficult to discern, even from my own emotions. I feel like I need something that I just don't have to ditch all the doubts that are breaking every belief I come close to having, and that's pretty much every day.

    By "don't fully believe", I mean a lot from entire disbelief, often due to a lack of signature, or sometimes actually feeling like me, even if that doesn't happen for my mindvoice almost ever in the first place anyway. It ranges from just slight disbelief and uncertainty to flat suppression of a response involuntarily, if only to preserve a decent mental state...

    I wish I could notice the influence from him. I'm sure he has some and likely manages to produce some influence as a result, but once again, the lack of different signature and, unfortunately, some sort of evidence in that way, makes it almost impossible to notice when it actually is him. It's upsetting knowing that others around you have that realization, while you're just waiting on it, and have been for years longer than almost everyone else.

    And yet I can't notice or detect any of it...

    It doesn't seem to help me, doubt-wise or just situationally...

    Thank you for offering your help... I'm sorry I'm really hard to help. I'm often either in denial or just offering so many difficult issues to which it's hard to provide a resolution.
     
  6. Tracey

    Tracey New Member Multiple System Is a host

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    I might be able to help. I'm basically going to throw a few theories into the air and if one of them works, Great! If none of them do then at least I've tried.

    One of ford and fury's videos on Youtube suggested that a tulpamaster shouldn't test their Tulpa. I'm not blaming you for anything but am wondering if this is what you're finding you're doing? Are you constantly testing your Tulpa for validation to see if it's real and Sentient? Perhaps you shouldn't and allow him to just be himself. I think if I was being tested all the time, I'd kinda feel like a prisoner.

    One of my Tulpa, Bendy I think, is starting to say [if the person who created me thinks I can't do this and that and doesn't believe I can ... why should I?] In a sense, this point of view sort of shows your Tulpa is sentient to some degree. If you're about to take an exam and nobody is supporting you, nobody believes you can pass that test. How would that make you feel? Do you think you'd be able to pass that exam feeling that way? I'm not a mind reader but perhaps your Tulpa is going through something similar which might be the reason it's taken as long as it has.

    Tay probably knows you aren't confident so another theory is that he's reacting.

    I suggest you take a deep breath, perhaps try to think what Tay is going through and why he's taking so long. By not communicating much for as long as he has, I think he's showing he's sentient. Maybe he needs a hug, some reassurance or support. If at all possible, try working on Believing that he can communicate and be sentient if you can. Then again maybe all you and Tay need is a confident boost.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  7. Lyca

    Lyca New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    I don't see any evidence of me testing him. The closest I get is asking him to try and do things that would knock the sense into me, and just getting upset when I don't get anything in response, even words or feelings.

    In addition, I doubt that would extend the development to over 4 years.
     
  8. Tracey

    Tracey New Member Multiple System Is a host

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    ...Maybe try creating a second Tulpa in that case. A new Tulpa will give you some hope which will be a good thing. A second Tulpa might be the spark to make Tay sentient as well.

    I'm fairly new myself so I apologize if my advise isn't that great.
     
  9. Lyca

    Lyca New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    I tried creating a new tulpa. I had the same result. Apologies for being blunt.
     
  10. Tracey

    Tracey New Member Multiple System Is a host

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    ...How good is your meditation? Generally when I look at spirit sites and stuff and people ask how they can hear this or hear that better, people always suggest they meditate in the forums to help them. So I'm going to suggest something a little different to what I've done before. Maybe try not to worry about your Tulpa so much right now. Focus more on the Wonderland and meditating. Not sure if you've heard about chakras. I heard about it once. I think you might need to work on the chakra that's in the head or above the head (Spirituality/Third Eye). It's this Chakra which opens up the third eye and allows poeple to see and communicate with Tulpa or Spiritual Beings or whatever else there is people can't see with normal eyes. Also I don't mean to stress you anything from this. When I was told about chakras, I was also told that it's actually quite common for people to have some sort of blockage in this head chakra so Your Tulpa was right when he said you're fine. Since it's so common, it's considered normal to have this chakra blocked so nothing really wrong with that. You can see your Tulpa which is great but the blockage in this chakra is what's causing your problem. If you decide to sort it out then once that chakra has been sorted, hopefully things will be much better for you and your Tulpa will finally start communicating. Hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  11. Lyca

    Lyca New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    Two more blunt points.

    I'm not going to stop worrying about Tay or stop aiding his development. Ever.

    All this spiritual stuff is symbolism, and for symbolism to work, you need to be comfortable with it and believe it. That's not me. I'm sorry.
     
  12. Tracey

    Tracey New Member Multiple System Is a host

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Pronouns:
    She/Her
    Happy to hear that you'll keep on aiding Tay in his development.

    Sorry that none of my ideas helped you. I'm officially out of ideas now.

    I wish the best for you and Tay and I hope that you'll find something which works that I couldn't.
     
  13. The Quandary

    The Quandary Colors and Contrast Administrator Moderator Mixed-Origin System

    Joined:
    May 6, 2015
    Messages:
    78
    [Cassius] This is probably going to sound a bit out there, but an important thing to remember is that perception itself--including perception of "signature"--is a product of the brain. A significant part of it is subjective rather than objective.

    To use a metaphor, consider anxiety. An anxious person might think that everyone hates them, or that calamity will befall them if they leave their house. This anxiety is so vivid that it feels absolutely real, even if people reassure them that they're a great friend, or even if they go outside and have a great day. It persists in the face of evidence to the otherwise.

    Doubt can be the same way. We actually had a problem where no one in this head felt "real" for the longest time. There would be occasional full moments of clarity, with no doubt whatsoever, but otherwise, we'd do impressive things like switch control and debate extensively and all sorts of things that other tulpamancers think will blow all doubt out of the water... and yet, we'd still doubt each other. It wasn't until some years in that we finally realized one major part of what was causing it - we have severe derealization issues that cause nothing to feel real. This meant that no person--including physical people--felt real, but we noticed it the most with each other since we're socially conditioned to doubt the personhoods of headpeople. The other major part was that we had OCD, which caused us to obsessively check and doubt everything, even far past the point it was helpful, and the anxiety from that clouded our perception of everything else.

    At this point, we saw how much the doubt, the constant testing, had taken its toll, and decided fuck it, we were just going to push on regardless of doubt. It had outlived its usefulness, and we were going to deal with it the same way we would any other OCD compulsion--if it didn't have a good reason for presenting itself, we would refuse to even engage with it. It wasn't easy, at all, but it's paid off--both making that resolution, and taking steps towards addressing our derealization, have made us--and other people--feel real more and more. The doubt hasn't gone entirely away, and we'll suspect some degree of it will always be there, but it's no longer as all-consuming and unquestionable.

    It can be incredibly hard to challenge the iron fist of doubt, but it's a valuable skill. Not just for tulpamancy. For life in general. I'd recommend taking a step back and looking at the doubt itself. Figure out why you doubt--what are you afraid of? What makes you feel unable to let go of the doubt? What do you think will happen if you don't doubt? Working through the reasons is the first step to experiencing it in a less paralyzing way.

    Keep in mind that tulpamancy, especially early tulpamancy, will not have the same exact sensation as interacting with someone physically. Brains process physicality differently than they process internal stuff, so it makes sense that you'd experience the beginnings of vocality as thoughts-turning-into-words. The "especially over the last few months" seems promising, actually. It might be worth examining how you expect the process to go. Be careful of comparing yourself too much to others--it can cause you to miss what you do have.

    Also, on top of that, consider this: some people cannot recognize faces. Some people cannot visualize anything. It may simply be possible that for whatever reason, you're unable to sense "signatures" in the same way that others cannot recognize faces or visualize their tulpas. It might be too soon to tell, but even if it's so, it doesn't have any impact on the fact that Tay is there, as you've already seen. It might take some adjusting to, but you two can definitely still make it work, overcome doubt, and benefit from each other's presence moving forward.