After it's started, how to get out of forcing.

Discussion in 'Creation Tips And Articles' started by Keiretsu, Jun 20, 2015.

  1. Keiretsu

    Keiretsu The Menagerie Mixed-Origin System

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    This is a bit of advice for you new folk, who are plodding along, and things have gotten to the point where you can talk to your tulpa, and get a response, when you put your mind to forcing.

    A lot of people are worried that if they don't actively force their tulpa, that their tulpa is going to dissipate. For most of you, that's 100% true. Oh god, you're going to lose your... there's a way around it.

    This is something I've explained to a few people, and I sort of learned by just luck of the draw, since the first tulpa for us ended up being a little, who sort of ignored 'the rules'. We've gone on to apply that learning to the next one, and our recent accidental addition. We don't ever force. They aren't going away. If they dissipate, it would be their choice, and would likely take quite a long time to accomplish.

    How you ask?

    Here's the thing.

    When you're sitting there, reading those guides, and setting aside time to force, you're probably also hearing all the 'oh, if you don't force, they go away'. When you're spending those times forcing, and if that's the only time you're talking to your tulpa and your tulpa is talking to you, then they rely on you 100% for personal growth and maintenance. You're going to struggle along, with very slow progress, and seem to slip backwards when you skip times, because that's all they ever get.

    Well, if they are capable of talking, then really, they are your peer, not your subordinate. In other words, they have every right to be there as you do, and they aren't lesser in any way. They only think this, because that's what you've been instilling in them by thinking that only when you're forcing are you there to listen and interact. You need to change that thinking, and open the door for them to talk to you.

    Advice to the tulpas here, rather than wait for the host to talk to you, talk to them.

    Think they are driving too fast? Tell them to slow down. Think your host is acting goofy? Have a laugh at them, and comment on it. They doing something utterly boring? Strike up a conversation about some detail you find interesting that they might have overlooked. ... and at NO point in this did I say wait until they ask your opinion.

    That's the big advice, for the tulpa, and for the host to get through their head. The tulpa can force themselves just as well as you can force them. They just need to break out of the mold of waiting to be spoken to, and speak to you when they want to. If they decide to strike up a conversation while you're getting dressed in the morning, about what you're going to wear, how to do your makeup, or even the weather outside; then you, the host, are going to be hard pressed to ignore it. Chat with them. Let them weigh in their input. It puts the reins of passive forcing on the tulpa. They will grow and develop their own independence a lot faster when their growth and development of self is steered by them and not the host.

    Think of it like talking to someone on a cell phone. If all you do is call your friend to talk to them, then if you don't call, it's going to strain the friendship and after a while they will move on and not answer the phone anymore. If, however, they call you too, then it's a two-way friendship and you're both contributing and that friendship will grow. Make sense?

    Imposition, switching, all the advanced things that people have a hard time wrapping their head around... believe it or not, the hard parts are on the tulpa. They control it. For you to really get into the advanced techniques, you all need to break the mold a little and let the tulpa have more independence of their own and you'll likely find those advanced things start to come a little easier and faster.

    Cheers!

    -S&An
     
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  2. BlytheSpirit

    BlytheSpirit New Member Tulpamancy System Is a tulpa

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    Ok, hope it's ok to bump this, but this really has been illuminating to me. It's such good advice, I think, at the very least it assuages a lot of insecurities of mine.

    I wonder about two things though. First like, does it make sense, with this understanding to still force. Like, set out specific times for us to meditate together and actively work on things. Together. So It's also a time for me to concentrate on, imposing myself, for instance, or to practice fronting and switching.

    I talk to Ash often, and often I'm the one asking her to sit down with me so we can force, but until now I had been thinking only of her like responsibilities and knowing I had to cooperate but not take initiative. Which is my other question, what can I do? If I want to get to imposition, if I want to walk-in for instance. Are there guides for tulpas? Otherwise, all we have is the guides for mancers and I have to kind of extrapolate what my position is. I wonder if some tulpa has experience in this that I could bother for advice.
     
  3. AGGuy

    AGGuy Professional Pancake Multiple System Is a systemmate

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    This is kinda what I've been preaching to people since forever. Interesting to see this post.

    Like... Rina and I have never had any of these "forcing sessions". We never even really saw the point to it, for us personally.
    "Well, uh, she's just there. What are we supposed to force, what's that even supposed to mean? It's not like she needs attention from me to go on merrily with her day, so I don't get it." <- Me about one to one and a half years ago (Rina appeared probably sometime October 2015, and I noticed and first talked to her on November 21, 2015).

    Of course nowadays I... sooort of understand what this whole forcing thing is about for other people. I see why many people need it... but I still think this dependency is born of Tulpamancy, as a set of rules and beliefs within plurality, being inherently ill-conceived and forcing (hue) such negative elements on those practicing it... they need forcing sessions, else their headmate will die, only because they went in from the start with the mindset of "I need to do forcing sessions, else my headmate will die", which is precisely the part most people fail to understand.

    Oh, how I remember the days when people told us how special it was for Rina to already be all independent and all that stuff right from the start...
    ... when, really, the only reason for her having been so independent and great at all these plurality-head-mindy things right from the start was just the mere fact, the coincidence, that she came into existence without anyone hammering into her and my head how she's a newborn tulpa and thus has to be super-dependent and unable to even properly talk or think without my attention.

    I.e. we weren't special, we just got lucky.
    And you can probably see where my sorta sour attitude towards Tulpamancy (as a practice, not towards those practicing it, mind you) comes from.

    ... sorry. Went off on a tangent there, didn't I?
    But, then again, it does have to do with the topic at hand, so I'mma post it anyways.


    Greets,
    AG
     
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  4. FallFamily

    FallFamily Forum Goddesses Administrator Moderator Plural System Mixed-Origin System

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    [Tri] Forcing can still be useful. Basically, the idea is that after a certain point that is actually a lot earlier than many people expect, a tulpa is capable of sustaining themselves and growing on their own accord if they know how to do it or have enough time to figure it out and the host does not get in the way. This doesn't mean that dedicated times of interacting with each other or working on things are a bad thing. After all, it is no different than a group of people who get together at the same time every week for a club or other activity of some sort, and friends in this group who spend time with each other normally also participating together. We think that is the best way to think about it - two people who interact with both taking initiative and who also sometimes have pre-planned scheduled times together.

    There are guides out there targeted towards people who live inside primarily (such as many tulpas), but sadly not that many. Good way to find them is to look at who wrote various guides and see if the person who wrote it is a tulpa or other person who came primarily from inside (they may or may not be living there most of the time in the present). Sadly, this is a shortcoming of the present literature.
     
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  5. tulpa1

    tulpa1 Member Is a tulpa

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    The one thing I don't like about this guide is it tells you to not force, or that forcing regularly is a mistake. They're not gonna die if you start missing sessions, but habit forming is essential to keeping you in the game in the first place.

    Now a lot of people are self centric. This is just an unfortunate truth about humanity in general. And tulpamancers are no different. This leads to a lot of practices that are unequal, including not asking the tulpa about a problem before asking others online, double standards all over the place, and yes, not seeing that the tulpa has a job to force themselves alongside the host, by participating actively.

    It is indeed missing from a lot of guides.
     
  6. AGGuy

    AGGuy Professional Pancake Multiple System Is a systemmate

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    Well, no, it's not essential. There are systems like us that never had regular forcing sessions and still don't after about one and a half years, and have no problems whatsoever.
    It's only essential if you make it essential.

    From that / my point of view, I'd rather argue that introducing such an aspect of artificial responsibility and forced (hue) habit into what should, by all means, simply be one of the most direct and true forms of a mutually beneficial and healthy social relationship (of whatever nature, be it familial, friendly, romantic or whatever else) is anything but healthy or beneficial.
    I.e. if one can avoid it, it should, in my opinion, be avoided; mutual and equal interaction on a regular basis in a social relationship (especially when you're stuck in the same friggin' brain together) should stem from a desire for such, and not from an artificial element of necessity (not least because interaction out of necessity can sour any kind of relationship in the long run - "can", not "will", mind you, but "can" indeed).


    Greets,
    AG
     
  7. tulpa1

    tulpa1 Member Is a tulpa

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    Guides are mainly written for those who are experiencing difficulty. I imagine that someone who has a tulpa who is so strong that you can't get rid of them if you tried, they are doing pretty well. Also, what is forcing, really, other than spending time with your tulpa? I just think, this guide would be stronger if it were directed at those who still need to force, and those who don't have vocal tulpas yet, because this advice can help them too.

    You want tulpa relationships to be organic and true, rather than forced? Yeah. But at the same time, complexities. What is a relationship other than a habitual rendezvous, what is a tulpa with no strong relationship to do for sustenance?
     
  8. AGGuy

    AGGuy Professional Pancake Multiple System Is a systemmate

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    What do you mean by "sustenance"?
    Sorry for the one-liner, but I can't properly reply unless I know.


    Greets,
    AG
     
  9. tulpa1

    tulpa1 Member Is a tulpa

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    Okay, thinking time, probably. Or, whatever is that which supports one's strength.